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ducky
Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Posts: 281
Location: t county
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 Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:11 am Post subject: Asian carp |
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Do u think the flathead population would increase and we would have bigger flathead if they came to our local lakes? I know they are horrific on other species of fish, but I would think that would cause the bigger predator fish to increase in size and quality. the Asian carp im sure would be a great source of food, but u would proply notice a even more decline in numbers of fish caught.[/u]
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Brock |
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katfish
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Joined: 19 Jul 2005
Posts: 1283
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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Brock
I can see nothing good about those asian bighead carp.
The places that have them all wish they didn't. Introducing
new species can cause problems.
Even some waters where flathead were introduced have
declines of other species.
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M.Magis
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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Location: SE Ohio
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:45 am Post subject: |
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| I’m not aware of any lakes that we fish that lack of food for predators. Flatheads aren’t going hungry, or being held back because they can’t find food. All that the asian carp may do is reduce the population of some other species such as shad, which could be catastrophic to a closed lake where they are the primary prey for most predatory species. |
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ducky
Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Posts: 281
Location: t county
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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I understand they would be hurtful to other fish, but a bunch of little carp I think would cause a bunch of big flatheads, it seems like it is almost impossible to find and catch numbers of small common carp in local lakes, ive tried to catch small carp for bait at lakes, but rarely do, I do have a few small ponds with no predator fish and they are loaded with small carp,, we've caught flatheads on small carp and they seem to be great lively bait when u do have them.. so my question is do predator fish hunt small carp for the nutrition, and know to eat them for that, I know a flathead will more than likely take any fish it can.. if there was more carp could it cause bigger flathead. Look at the amount of carp u see during spawn, but u rarely see small carp.
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Brock |
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M.Magis
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
Posts: 224
Location: SE Ohio
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:19 am Post subject: |
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| The abundent adult carp population confirms that there are indeed countless small carp in all local lakes. I have no idea why we can never find them, but there's no doubt they are there. |
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ducky
Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Posts: 281
Location: t county
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:52 am Post subject: |
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Boy I wish we could
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Brock |
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SeanStone
Joined: 11 Apr 2011
Posts: 59
Location: Peebles, Ohio
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| Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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| M.Magis wrote: | | The abundent adult carp population confirms that there are indeed countless small carp in all local lakes. I have no idea why we can never find them, but there's no doubt they are there. |
I have my doubts that the small carp population is as abundant as the 3-10lb carp population. I fish for carp frequently and have rarely caught carp under 2.5 pounds with rod, or in my cast net. There was a study that showed that mature carp will actually eat their own eggs, which would also contribute to a lopsided population pyramid. I.E more larger carp and less smaller carp. When you factor in that small carp are eaten by most predatory fish such as bass, musky, catfish, etc. Its easy to see how the population of small carp would be at a higher risk.
Ducky I believe that there is a set amount of fish a lake can hold, the carrying capacity, and that by introducing a non-native invasive specie of fish you will only replace the existing species with the Asian Carp. So essentially you won't be giving the flathead any more food.....unless you somehow shifted the population size/age to have a greater number of smaller fish.
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Sean Stone |
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M.Magis
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
Posts: 224
Location: SE Ohio
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| Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:21 am Post subject: |
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| The 3-10 lb carp start off as 4-8” carp. It’s actually impossible for there to be more of the larger carp than small carp, other than an occasional die off. The small carp do exist, they have to. I just don’t know where they live. There is one pond where I used to be able to catch them, but eventually they got hard to catch there as well. |
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SeanStone
Joined: 11 Apr 2011
Posts: 59
Location: Peebles, Ohio
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 1:16 am Post subject: |
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| M.Magis wrote: | | It’s actually impossible for there to be more of the larger carp than small carp, other than an occasional die off. |
Whats the reasoning behind this? Are you saying for a stable population there has to be more young fish?
If so, in most instances I would agree with you, however I feel that carp are different than other species in that they are self regulating. Once a large carp population gets established the large carp will consume most of their own eggs. Resulting in a lower hatch, and lower numbers of young carp. Over the course of a few years, its easy to see how a population can become uneven with more adult fish and less young fish. When the older carp begin to die off, their is more hatch that goes un-eaten and the population can then begin to re-establish itself.
We fish one lake in particular several times a year for carp and have never caught a carp under 7 pounds in it. However we have caught two fish over 30, a dozen over 20, and hoards over 10lbs. For southwest Ohio this isn't normal, most lakes have an average of 5 pounds and a typical catch of 15 pounds. The lake in mention is small and the odnr does not control carp populations with shocking, etc. so I presume this to be rather undisturbed carp population. Whereas larger lakes are controlled more by the odnr and the populations aren't as uneven demographically, but I feel that the point stays the same. More old fish will equal less young fish.
Here's just one site I found rather quickly. If you look at anything posted that calls for the removal of common carp you will quickly see that people get upset when carp eat other fishes eggs. Rarely will you hear anyone complain about them eating their own eggs. LOL.
http://www.carp-fishing-tactics.com/science-carp-reproduction.html
Here's a carp my gf caught this weekend out of the lake in mention.
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Sean Stone |
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M.Magis
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
Posts: 224
Location: SE Ohio
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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Good grief, that thing's a pig!
What I meant was that for fish to get big, they have to start small. Though, now I think I know what you mean. Small carp represent only one or two year classes, larger carp represent many year classes. |
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